Observer Mk II

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Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-26 18:10

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Technical Specifications:
Name/Type: Observer II class
Designer/Manufacturer: NIF
Designation: stealth heavy carrier
Crew: 45,000
Length: 3200 Meters
Speed: 100 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x1 backup class 12
Shield Rating: 10,600 SBD +9600 SBD
Hull Rating: 8000 RU
Weapons: 50 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries, 50 Taim & Bak Heavy Turbolaser Cannons, 60 Ion Cannnons, 32 quad Laser Cannon Batteries, 5 Tractor Beam Projectors.
Fighter Complement:8 Squadrons- 1 squadron tie phantoms , 1 squadron shadow droids
Troops: 1500 Stormtroopers
Support Craft: 800 IIxC's , 2500 Viper Probe droids.2 raider II class corvettes stored in hangars. 10 Lambda-Class shuttles, 3 Lambda-Mine layers, 8 Gamma Assault Transports. 200 hyperspace viper delivery vehicles. 150 elegance class message drones.
Special: Molecular Recycling Plant, Stardust Overdrive, IntCloak, Helios AI, CGTA-IFCS, Engine Baffle System, MIST, MISS, Repulsor system. Duranium enhanced hull, backup shield generator.
:Special Equipment: Three 225-SIG KDY Tactical Combat Jammers, three 1s-43 Echo Devices.

Description: drawing inspiration from the aging secutor class designs, this vessel was envisioned as a means of seeing to the growing demands of Task Force Omniscient's increased use of the II-xC maintenance/broadcast ship during the continuation of Federation Territorial Expansion. Onboard, several facilities dedicated to laboratories and command and control systems are present to coordinate and supply the many Intelligence necessities the Federation requires.

Purpose: a one off ship for ISIS as its present subcap capaity is pitifully low for all IIxC's introduced.

Rationale:
*shrugs*
Just wanted to make something Secutor like for all the IIxCs I've been rping. And the Secutor itself was larger then anything TFO had, so *shrugs again* I asked myself what else it would have.
Last edited by Abraxes Rancor on 2015-12-28 22:15, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Tavish McFini » 2015-12-28 21:49

There are a couple problems with giving TFO a 3.2Km long ship...
  • Huge drain on budget and resources to both build and staff. One of these could be built or, just to throw out a number, 10 Echo-class ships could be built.
  • A ship this big, even with all that stealth, is going to be a massive target and should we lose it, that will take a huge bite out of the intelligence management community.
That said, I'm not entirely against it mostly because it seems the norm is to have a centralized office for things (eg. ESD flagships for each fleet, the ArcHammer for the research group to name but two examples) and since the Imperial Intelligence group's central office is aboard the Observer, I wouldn't be against giving them a larger vessel to serve as a much larger base of sorts. Kinda like going from a small office building to Langley, or whatever the CIA did. Maybe that's a bad example.

I'm unsure if we prefer a centralized structure or a decentralized one though I suppose that'd be up to the folks in the ISI* (we better settle on a new name some time soon!)

So, if nothing else, I would see this ship as a one-off and not something we'd be building fleets of.

Also, why the shadow droids? We don't really use them in the NIF. Why not just have the entire fighter compliment as TIE Phantoms?

EDIT - It'd also be nice if you could try to follow the R&D post format in your post, just for clarity and consistency. Thanks!

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-28 22:32

Tavish McFini wrote:There are a couple problems with giving TFO a 3.2Km long ship...
  • Huge drain on budget and resources to both build and staff. One of these could be built or, just to throw out a number, 10 Echo-class ships could be built.
-3.5 echos at most and a Straw man here for budgetary concerns. We have devastator and titans for such things this size easy. The head of old empire intell, though I hate to say the name- *cough* Isard, was given a freaking super star destroyer for the volume of tasks the imperial intelligence would need...

Unlike Ace and past peole on the board I disagree that such a vast ship was unnecessary *at the time* because they did not have the improvements the NIF has for sorting things out, and the ability to put that same processing power in a smaller package, via Helios assistance.

:p should Fini just reassign it back to Crystala... Maybe on loan or lease to buy? ;) or should she get something like this?

Jesting aside, it's the size of a titan or a devastator, there's Legends examples of such ships\stations being the size and housing capabilities head of various intelligence for Oversector.

The NIF presently has about. 4.3 to 7 Oversector s amount of territory on my estimate. Though that's not by consideration of population.

Frankly, TFO is a little... Under equipped for its missions, and doesn't have the types of smaller ships it's various inquisitors would need of the size to patrol it's regions.

And does not have the size , computing power, or AI assistance to collate its large territorial responsibilities. Despite the networks we have in place of buoys, etc.
[*]A ship this big, even with all that stealth, is going to be a massive target and should we lose it, that will take a huge bite out of the intelligence management community.
*shrugs* not in dispute. So far I figured it should run away and be a carrier of sorts for the massive amount of IIxC's we have out there.
That said, I'm not entirely against it mostly because it seems the norm is to have a centralized office for things (eg. ESD flagships for each fleet, the ArcHammer for the research group to name but two examples) and since the Imperial Intelligence group's central office is aboard the Observer, I wouldn't be against giving them a larger vessel to serve as a much larger base of sorts. Kinda like going from a small office building to Langley, or whatever the CIA did. Maybe that's a bad example.
Pretty much.
I'm unsure if we prefer a centralized structure or a decentralized one though I suppose that'd be up to the folks in the ISI* (we better settle on a new name some time soon!)

Pretty much have to work in that from both sides of the equation:

This.

And then two to three smaller lines need to be made for what subcaps can't handle.

Mainly consider the trenchant class cruiser the Iron hand that was the personal ride of an Inquisitpr in the old empire in the legends continuity.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Ironhand ... ant-class)

Or the other small operations vessels for tracking or supporting small teams.

Mainly the Reaper II class corvette if we can get a modified mark 3 with a subcap or second fighter to support small group missions.

Ideally, I'd want a line of 10 reapers to 1 Iron hand/trenchant for a full line of 11 ships to do the necessary decentralized needs and 1 of these for the centralized ones.
So, if nothing else, I would see this ship as a one-off and not something we'd be building fleets of.
Correct.
Also, why the shadow droids? We don't really use them in the NIF. Why not just have the entire fighter compliment as TIE Phantoms?
Because I didn't think Ace would let me put all squadrons of TIE SCOURGES onboard for its protection?

You tell me what you think is best?
EDIT - It'd also be nice if you could try to follow the R&D post format in your post, just for clarity and consistency. Thanks!
Sadly, phone use kinda puts the hurt on that. I'll try to reedit, over the next few days.

If you want to tweak stats or anything to help the design to be the best it can be. Feel free. Stat calcs are not my forte even if the premise is what I'm trying to support here. :)

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Tavish McFini » 2015-12-28 23:12

I'm not sure if Isard was given the ESD so much as she just took it for herself after the Emperor's death. Wookieepedia- and we all know how reliable it can be- claims that the Lus was buried on Coruscant to serve as an emergency evacuation craft for the Emperor.

And you're correct on the front regarding the NIF being fairly large and needing additional oversight. I suppose logistics about how the old Imperial Intelligence was set up is somewhat lacking so I don't really have a scale to measure against. That, and their HQ on Coruscant is something we don't have access to nor a close proxy to serve the same purpose.

Stat wise, I compared it against the Titan since it seems like the closest proxy in terms of size and I only have a couple comments:

1) 100MGLT. How is it achieving that level of speed for only an extra 100m of length? Especially since it's hull is almost 3,000RU point stronger (which to me implies more mass.) If this ship is in a situation where it is trying to beat a hasty retreat, it's already failed in its duties. Plus, if we tone the speed down, it could make the rest of the space seem a little more reasonable for all the stuff we're cramming in here. Plus, if I'm being honest here, it might also help legitimize the shield valves too if we bump down the speed.

2) Probably throw a stat like "Other Personnel" below the troops point and use a number of around 20,000. This would denote the administrative, intelligence, management and support staff that would be aboard the ship and while they wouldn't be necessarily operating the vessel itself, they'd be aboard full time nonetheless.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-28 23:19

Tavish McFini wrote:I'm not sure if Isard was given the ESD so much as she just took it for herself after the Emperor's death. Wookieepedia- and we all know how reliable it can be- claims that the Lus was buried on Coruscant to serve as an emergency evacuation craft for the Emperor.

And you're correct on the front regarding the NIF being fairly large and needing additional oversight. I suppose logistics about how the old Imperial Intelligence was set up is somewhat lacking so I don't really have a scale to measure against. That, and their HQ on Coruscant is something we don't have access to nor a close proxy to serve the same purpose.

Stat wise, I compared it against the Titan since it seems like the closest proxy in terms of size and I only have a couple comments:

1) 100MGLT. How is it achieving that level of speed for only an extra 100m of length? Especially since it's hull is almost 3,000RU point stronger (which to me implies more mass.) If this ship is in a situation where it is trying to beat a hasty retreat, it's already failed in its duties. Plus, if we tone the speed down, it could make the rest of the space seem a little more reasonable for all the stuff we're cramming in here. Plus, if I'm being honest here, it might also help legitimize the shield valves too if we bump down the speed.
Took that from the devastator actually. If you want it to run away, it has to be the fastest possible. Devastator is also closest in values as well.

If you compare it to the values I figure was nerfing the guns from even the Devastators 80, 80 bit for the hull.

860 hill increase or a little more then ten percent for the devastators 7140 RU for the duranium increase with less armament for the mass issues. Also less squadrons for more subcap capability.

Personally, as far as whether it will ever be in the situation to need it?

Wise man say : plan for worse case scenario.

If you want to lower speed, it would add armament and more squadrons back.

As for shield values, you want it to have higher shields and comparatively: a 1000 SBD increase from the Devastators 4 shield domes isn't that bad considering the time elapsed and tech increases.

For super speed or both. F*** it and ask Ace to put the next Lucky Chocolate Drive on it. ISI* needs a rule of cool on it.
Name/Type: Devastator-class Star Destroyer
Designer/Manufacturer: Kuat Drive Yards
Designation: Large Cruiser
Crew: 50,753, 289 gunners
Length: 3,200 Meters
Speed: 100 MGLT
Hyperdrive: x2
Shield Rating: 9,600 SBD;
Hull Rating: 7,140 RU
Weapons: 80 Heavy Taim & Bak Turbolaser Batteries, 80 Taim & Bak Heavy Turbolaser Cannons, 80 Ion Cannnons, 32 Laser Cannon Batteries, 5 Phylon Tractor Beam Projectors.
Fighter Complement: 12 Squadrons.
Troops: 19,400 Stormtroopers, 40 AT-ATs, 60 AT-STs, 2 Pre-fabricated Garrison Bases.
Support Craft: 20 Alpha Class XG-1 Star Wings, 56 Delta Class Dx-9 or Dx-9s Transports, 30 Lambda Class T-4a Shuttles, 4 Gamma Class Assault Shuttles and 4 TIE Shuttle Craft.
As the titan is 3100 m, and the Devastator is 3200 I would much rather have the considerations based on the Devastator.

2) Probably throw a stat like "Other Personnel" below the troops point and use a number of around 20,000. This would denote the administrative, intelligence, management and support staff that would be aboard the ship and while they wouldn't be necessarily operating the vessel itself, they'd be aboard full time nonetheless.
Not going to lie. Was hoping a number wizard might come along to help firm up some numbers for that. ;)

If you go by the devastator- it's + ~30.000 personnel on board.

30.000>20.000 "other personell is better as they say.

However , as crystala would probably get the most use out of this as a setting it's your call sorta. I am being a devils advocate here to have you consider it in comparison to the devastator... Because quite frankly the end result would be better for what I think. ISI* would want.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Ibrahim Vareshi » 2015-12-29 00:54

Abraxes Rancor wrote:
Tavish McFini wrote:There are a couple problems with giving TFO a 3.2Km long ship...
  • Huge drain on budget and resources to both build and staff. One of these could be built or, just to throw out a number, 10 Echo-class ships could be built.
-3.5 echos at most and a Straw man here for budgetary concerns.
A purely informative correction: the shipyard capacity required to build one 3.2km vessel is equivalent to the capacity required to build ~three 985m Echo-class vessels, or about 1:3. The resource cost of production and upkeep is closer to 1:32.

Draw conclusions from this as you like.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Kane » 2015-12-29 02:56

My problems are technical first, justification later. But if we're going to start off with justification, it's a nonstandard ship.

The stats are completely weirded out. There's so many strange things going on that I have to start with just one: what the frick would make this a carrier?
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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-29 03:15

Kane wrote:My problems are technical first, justification later. But if we're going to start off with justification, it's a nonstandard ship.

The stats are completely weirded out. There's so many strange things going on that I have to start with just one: what the frick would make this a carrier?
Your Integration of II x C's into ISIS' lineup. The idea was more along the Lines of an: Aviation Cruiser.

At least it started out like this: the inspiration being the Russian Kiev class Aircraft Carrier {more an Aviation Cruiser} or how due to the Anaxes rules the Secutor Class isn't a Battle or Heavy Cruiser, but a Star destroyer.

YEAH, it's an odd duck. But the stealth carrier was the closest Idea for classification type I had to an aviation cruiser for all the IIxC's that ISIS would be using.

I admit I probably flummoxed the Stats stuff... a HUGE margin.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Kane » 2015-12-29 04:12

Abraxes Rancor wrote:Your Integration of II x C's into ISIS' lineup. The idea was more along the Lines of an: Aviation Cruiser.

At least it started out like this: the inspiration being the Russian Kiev class Aircraft Carrier {more an Aviation Cruiser} or how due to the Anaxes rules the Secutor Class isn't a Battle or Heavy Cruiser, but a Star destroyer.

YEAH, it's an odd duck. But the stealth carrier was the closest Idea for classification type I had to an aviation cruiser for all the IIxC's that ISIS would be using.

I admit I probably flummoxed the Stats stuff... a HUGE margin.
You know that the aviation cruiser was originally a failed concept, right? But if we want to go that route, just about all ships we have are aviation cruisers since they carry fighters. This is more along the lines of an assault carrier. Except it's not because it doesn't carry more fighters than a cruiser of that size would. You built the stats off a cruiser, and it shows. It's not a carrier of any sort.

But let's get back to the original question. If ISIS needs a larger command ship (something which has yet to be justified), why exactly should we build one on a nonstandard hull? TFO already has some of the most odd ships out there, specialized for intelligence tasks like SIGINT, supporting HUMINT, communications, cryptography, analysis and so on.

I mean... the Empire didn't do that, they just modified the Lusankya.
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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Tavish McFini » 2015-12-29 04:30

Admittedly, the Empire 1) didn't really have a dedicated Intelligence flagship and 2) when the Lusankya was modified, Isard was both the Director-General and pretty much the defacto head of the Empire at that point. I doubt, had Palpy still been around at the time, the ISS would have been given their own ship since they already had the capital world from which to establish their HQ.

But yeah, using a standard ship template would make more sense.

Conversely, it's pretty safe to say that every ship in the NIF already has intelligence teams and equipment aboard it. Well, if the Intimidator has a ferris wheel then I'm sure it has an ISIS branch office in it! :D
Kane wrote:TFO already has some of the most odd ships out there, specialized for intelligence tasks like SIGINT, supporting HUMINT, communications, cryptography, analysis and so on.
So, just going to throw this one out there: how hard would it be to, say, decommission the ships and move the equipment to a bunch of Star Destroyers or other cruisers that follow a more standard template? Probably cut costs and save us a lot of credits in the long term.
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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-29 05:28

Kane wrote: You know that the aviation cruiser was originally a failed concept, right? But if we want to go that route, just about all ships we have are aviation cruisers since they carry fighters. This is more along the lines of an assault carrier. Except it's not because it doesn't carry more fighters than a cruiser of that size would. You built the stats off a cruiser, and it shows. It's not a carrier of any sort.
Yep, not going to lie: i picked something that seemed the smallest amount of space for things to be sandwiched into.
But let's get back to the original question. If ISIS needs a larger command ship (something which has yet to be justified), why exactly should we build one on a nonstandard hull?
The non standard hill is mostly OOC: because even suggestions of building modified older versions of Canon ships has been met with outright hostility at times from other players?

Plus, to be honest, when things as actual expansion come out to play of fleets we get people antsy, that makes it difficult to approach and say, " * I think your fundamental approach to ISIS and TFO , while not wrong, could certainly be better to be honest I remember the hassle of doing fourth fleet expansion to make fifth and sixth and the arguments there.
TFO already has some of the most odd ships out there, specialized for intelligence tasks like SIGINT, supporting HUMINT, communications, cryptography, analysis and so on.
Conditionally agree, but not on the HumInt side. Or tracking down on smaller ships For mid level ISIS missions. Which is somewhat not reflective at all of newer material of fantasy flight games or older uses of vessels for various purposes.

For Pete's sake, they are introducing Inquistors on modified TIE defenders launched from Raider class corvettes, or squadrons in the bonus material now.

If you wanted the throwback to Legends, name one ship in the current line up that stands as replaceable as the Iron hand.

And that's just on the lower spectrum. Because IIRC anything 120 -300 m in ISIS is based on stealth, not Active Combative intelligence action at a middling corvette to frigate level.
I mean... the Empire didn't do that, they just modified the Lusankya.
Just like rationally we should be modifying some other vessel for the MASSIVE amount of 2xC' s As now subcap carrying is more important in thematics now then straight snubfighters... Due to the amount of territory covered with them.
Tavish McFini wrote:Admittedly, the Empire 1) didn't really have a dedicated Intelligence flagship and 2) when the Lusankya was modified, Isard was both the Director-General and pretty much the defacto head of the Empire at that point. I doubt, had Palpy still been around at the time, the ISS would have been given their own ship since they already had the capital world from which to establish their HQ.

But yeah, using a standard ship template would make more sense.
1. Yep.
2. Yep.
3. The difference between a fleet based HQ and a planetary one is really relevant here.
Conversely, it's pretty safe to say that every ship in the NIF already has intelligence teams and equipment aboard it. Well, if the Intimidator has a ferris wheel then I'm sure it has an ISIS branch office in it! :D



So, just going to throw this one out there: how hard would it be to, say, decommission the ships and move the equipment to a bunch of Star Destroyers or other cruisers that follow a more standard template? Probably cut costs and save us a lot of credits in the long term.
Probably,never going to happen. But it's something we can hope for. .. l would rather just get a flag for it and get rid of the original designs altogether but... Modified older vessels like a Praetor or Praetor 2 certainly have people's hackles raised sometimes on the "eww, why would we build that" meter.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Kane » 2015-12-29 06:08

Tavish McFini wrote:So, just going to throw this one out there: how hard would it be to, say, decommission the ships and move the equipment to a bunch of Star Destroyers or other cruisers that follow a more standard template? Probably cut costs and save us a lot of credits in the long term.
That would be better in the long term. But there's a war going on, so we're limiting replacements to ships that need to be replaced urgently. As in 'destroyed' or 'beyond repair' or 'not worth salvaging' or 'better used as recycling material'.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Plus, to be honest, when things as actual expansion come out to play of fleets we get people antsy, that makes it difficult to approach and say, " * I think your fundamental approach to ISIS and TFO , while not wrong, could certainly be better to be honest I remember the hassle of doing fourth fleet expansion to make fifth and sixth and the arguments there.
Curious. If you think my approach isn't wrong but could be better, how could it be better?

Actually, let me rephrase that a bit.

The IRM's construction system exist because it gives us understandable limits to work with rather than just build whatever we want, as much of it as we want, and whenever, without limitations or costs or concerns.

Its very existence is there to require the need for priorities, balances, and justifications. I can understand that it causes some bruised heads when someone wants to expand in new and exciting directions immediately, but the rules have a larger meaning. It gives us a much needed framework; the same reason why tabletop games have rules rather than just a "make it up as you go" kind of rule.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Conditionally agree, but not on the HumInt side. Or tracking down on smaller ships For mid level ISIS missions. Which is somewhat not reflective at all of newer material of fantasy flight games or older uses of vessels for various purposes.
Presenting exhibit A, then.

Inquisition Module
Crew: 100 Inquisitors, 3,660 CompForce/Observation Staff and 10,000 Interrogation Droids.
Equipment:15,000 Pre-Fabricated Disintegration Chambers, 2 Prefab Garrison Bases, 1 Orbital Eraser Unit, Probes with Sterilization Spores, 5 Cluster Bombs with Magneticpulse Bombs, complete Orbital Nightcloak System.
Description:This module is used for punitive actions against insurgents and rebellious worlds. It is the most recent addition from Tagge Industries to the modules that can be used in the Modular Taskforce Cruiser. This module's cavernous cargo holds are needed to contain the extensive equipment carried.

For exhibit B, the Assassin-class corvettes are in TFO for a reason. They're modular ships that can among other things be fitted to take 600 passengers.

For exhibit C, there's a whole range of vessels that can track smaller ships in TFO, and it also begs the question of why a 3200 m long cruiser would do that job any better?
Abraxes Rancor wrote:For Pete's sake, they are introducing Inquistors on modified TIE defenders launched from Raider class corvettes, or squadrons in the bonus material now.

If you wanted the throwback to Legends, name one ship in the current line up that stands as replaceable as the Iron hand.

And that's just on the lower spectrum. Because IIRC anything 120 -300 m in ISIS is based on stealth, not Active Combative intelligence action at a middling corvette to frigate level.
Ah well, that's one of the real reasons isn't it? We have yet to decide whether to continue our Legends storyline or assemble a new one based on Disney. The problems with the latter being that there's only so much new material for it yet, we're already firmly established in Legends and would need something of a reboot, and we're an alternate history in any case.

I'm assuming that the Ironhand you're referring to is the Trenchant-class used by Mox Slosin. The 153 m long Assassin-class in TFO is more easily replaced than the 215 m long Trenchant. The Trenchant is a little better armed, but only what's reasonable for being a larger ship.

I don't really have a problem with high ranking Inquisitors using modified TIE Defenders.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Just like rationally we should be modifying some other vessel for the MASSIVE amount of 2xC' s As now subcap carrying is more important in thematics now then straight snubfighters... Due to the amount of territory covered with them.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you say massive amounts of IIxCs. Besides, what's the fault with using the ships we already have?

Believe me when I say that I've thought about whether ISIS would have need of larger command ships before. McFini would probably enjoy having an Allegiance-class. At the same time, you're arguing that TFO needs more ships to cover more territory... as in, small ships, not a command ship.

Why? It's not the coast guard we're talking about, there's no huge Jedi order spread across the galaxy anymore, we don't even hunt Force users in particular, and we're not actually in a civil war. It's a task force for specific circumstances and mobile headquarters for various operations. It's not like there's not a huge net of sensor satellites and listening stations or agents spread across the galaxy already.

Maybe there is a need. But I certainly haven't heard of much of one before now.
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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-29 07:21

Kane wrote:
Curious. If you think my approach isn't wrong but could be better, how could it be better?
Honestly a lot of it is background gripes and permutations as well as database upkeep and SM choices.

For starters... The elimination of several sub bureaus has, in my opinion, been a travesty and sorta made ISI* lesser.

How did we go from 16 bureaus and sub bureaus down to ... 8-9.

In complacency, I've seen a vast difference from EZboard days in ISIS* structure and SM types and resources since the great migrations that have passed.

Its odd , to know how much has b3an lost and to look at it in its current form and find the level of understanding by players about ISI*... Wanting.

When in the last SM did the technology aquistions bureau step out to play?

Why the back did we need the commisariat when:
The Bureau of Internal Security is charged with all internal NIF affairs of an overt- or covert-nature and is responsible for security within the ISIS and the NIF military as a whole, but also for the safety of NIF citizens and interests both within and without of NIF territory. The Bureau of Internal Security is composed of the Internal Organizations Agency, the Public Security Agency, the Public Opinion Agency, and the Agency of Interrogation.
Was so much MORE then IntOrg.

I look back... And I see 3can in th3 newest rendition so much *missed* opportunities. Truncated and distilled organizations that made ISI* interesting.

Going to the way back machin seeing ISI* with *muscle* before it got gutted.

Such has weighed on my mind a long time since my first year in the board. This is what I meant but "can do more."

The glad thing that I like about adjustments in the new write up, is its the External Opinion Bureau brought back and given muscle but it's like 1... Out of what was formerly 16.

Abraxes Rancor wrote:Conditionally agree, but not on the HumInt side. Or tracking down on smaller ships For mid level ISIS missions. Which is somewhat not reflective at all of newer material of fantasy flight games or older uses of vessels for various purposes.
Presenting exhibit A, then.

Inquisition Module
Crew: 100 Inquisitors, 3,660 CompForce/Observation Staff and 10,000 Interrogation Droids.
Equipment:15,000 Pre-Fabricated Disintegration Chambers, 2 Prefab Garrison Bases, 1 Orbital Eraser Unit, Probes with Sterilization Spores, 5 Cluster Bombs with Magneticpulse Bombs, complete Orbital Nightcloak System.
Description:This module is used for punitive actions against insurgents and rebellious worlds. It is the most recent addition from Tagge Industries to the modules that can be used in the Modular Taskforce Cruiser. This module's cavernous cargo holds are needed to contain the extensive equipment carried.[/quote]

*boss* I knew this: it's against worlds.Not against the nooks and crannies where the dubious enemies hide. Not against the asteroid fields of plaguing danger, or the shadowy underbelly of the frontiers around hutt or the trade sector space we would lurk in. Just discordant to about 25 more possible settings that ISIS should be hip deep in where anything 600 m or more is a bright target, and anything corvette like is dinner.
For exhibit B, the Assassin-class corvettes are in TFO for a reason. They're modular ships that can among other things be fitted to take 600 passengers.
I knew the passenger amount. Still does Jack against a serious threat and due to lack of scouts and heavier vessels are mainly relegated to the function of protecting the Emperor/echoes.

Not once have I seen in an SM or CM ISIS use them in any other way. Because they are too valuable as escorts.
For exhibit C, there's a whole range of vessels that can track smaller ships in TFO, and it also begs the question of why a 3200 m long cruiser would do that job any better?
Never said it did. As a matter of course it would stay away from such and launch other things... Like 2xCs to net something in.
Kane wrote: Ah well, that's one of the real reasons isn't it? We have yet to decide whether to continue our Legends storyline or assemble a new one based on Disney. The problems with the latter being that there's only so much new material for it yet, we're already firmly established in Legends and would need something of a reboot, and we're an alternate history in any case.
Not disagreeing, but even the comics had the old imperial intelligence more Bulked up.
I'm assuming that the Ironhand you're referring to is the Trenchant-class used by Mox Slosin. The 153 m long Assassin-class in TFO is more easily replaced than the 215 m long Trenchant. The Trenchant is a little better armed, but only what's reasonable for being a larger ship.
Main thing like the new raider it was designed to go and follow where he old assassin corvette can't. Comics had it having larger mass and armor and shields to track things in that nebula IIRC.
I don't really have a problem with high ranking Inquisitors using modified TIE Defenders.
Good, I don't have a problem of sending out 2xC s en masse over a sector IC to pick up traces of the enemy when our buoy systems are not enough.

Abraxes Rancor wrote:Just like rationally we should be modifying some other vessel for the MASSIVE amount of 2xC' s As now subcap carrying is more important in thematics now then straight snubfighters... Due to the amount of territory covered with them.
I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you say massive amounts of IIxCs. Besides, what's the fault with using the ships we already have?

Believe me when I say that I've thought about whether ISIS would have need of larger command ships before. McFini would probably enjoy having an Allegiance-class. At the same time, you're arguing that TFO needs more ships to cover more territory... as in, small ships, not a command ship.

Why? It's not the coast guard we're talking about, there's no huge Jedi order spread across the galaxy anymore, we don't even hunt Force users in particular, and we're not actually in a civil war. It's a task force for specific circumstances and mobile headquarters for various operations. It's not like there's not a huge net of sensor satellites and listening stations or agents spread across the galaxy already.

Maybe there is a need. But I certainly haven't heard of much of one before now.
Actually you yourself supplied such a need for ISIS Reliance on subcaps like the IIXC before, specifically the major gap in overall fleet composition or lack there of for the poor ratio, of non cruiser capitals. Is. Frigates, corvettes etc.

I remember this point from you clearly.

Even with the fancy buoys and hyperspace monitoring stations and platforms, this was clearly conveyed.

However, that limited resources things come into play.

To paraphrase:With resources strapped creation of more smaller units would not be feasible for some time.

Then someone pointed at the 2xC as a wonderful stopgap to be prepared for that time.

I remember others also alluded over time as NIF territory expands voluminously we would be rather going towards the better ratios, as ISIS had a lot of ground with 4th and 6th to cover on the defensive end when it came time for 1st 2nd, 3rd and 5th to move in on the NEw republic's third fleet and coruscant.

If you haven't guessed by now I'm no longer even arguing for my idea of a 3200 m ship here. Just for understanding isis, in my opinion, is far lesser then what it could be.

Starting with an hq or a lack there of, of any explanation besides "background handwavium of the setting" to justify why with constant expanding territory things with TFO, and ISIS, to me, just don't add up.[/quote]

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Kane » 2015-12-29 08:17

I took the liberty of deleting your double post, far as I could tell they were identical. Phone posting, I'm guessing.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Honestly a lot of it is background gripes and permutations as well as database upkeep and SM choices.

For starters... The elimination of several sub bureaus has, in my opinion, been a travesty and sorta made ISI* lesser.

How did we go from 16 bureaus and sub bureaus down to ... 8-9.

In complacency, I've seen a vast difference from EZboard days in ISIS* structure and SM types and resources since the great migrations that have passed.
Yes, the database is slow to update since I do most of the work in it, and well, I can't be here and there at the same time. I'm not even going to excuse that, it's just an unfortunate reality. But you have external resources to draw upon as well, and have.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Its odd , to know how much has b3an lost and to look at it in its current form and find the level of understanding by players about ISI*... Wanting.

When in the last SM did the technology aquistions bureau step out to play?

Why the back did we need the commisariat when:
The Bureau of Internal Security is charged with all internal NIF affairs of an overt- or covert-nature and is responsible for security within the ISIS and the NIF military as a whole, but also for the safety of NIF citizens and interests both within and without of NIF territory. The Bureau of Internal Security is composed of the Internal Organizations Agency, the Public Security Agency, the Public Opinion Agency, and the Agency of Interrogation.
Was so much MORE then IntOrg.

I look back... And I see 3can in th3 newest rendition so much *missed* opportunities. Truncated and distilled organizations that made ISI* interesting.

Going to the way back machin seeing ISI* with *muscle* before it got gutted.

Such has weighed on my mind a long time since my first year in the board. This is what I meant but "can do more."

The glad thing that I like about adjustments in the new write up, is its the External Opinion Bureau brought back and given muscle but it's like 1... Out of what was formerly 16.
I think you need to talk to Crystala over Intel's organization, then, because that's not something I poke into more than I have to. I'd mostly chalk it up to too few players.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:*boss* I knew this: it's against worlds.Not against the nooks and crannies where the dubious enemies hide. Not against the asteroid fields of plaguing danger, or the shadowy underbelly of the frontiers around hutt or the trade sector space we would lurk in. Just discordant to about 25 more possible settings that ISIS should be hip deep in where anything 600 m or more is a bright target, and anything corvette like is dinner.


It amply demonstrates the presence of HUMINT resources in TFO, which was the point I addressed. You don't need ships to scout out the underbelly of the galaxy unless you're running SIGINT. HUMINT by default, requires very little in terms of owned transportation and extraction. To analogize a bit, we don't paradrop agents into foreign lands, we send them by civilian bus stops. If the requirements of the mission demands a provided transport, it would be a shuttle or a stealth shuttle.

The II-xC, by the way, is entirely a SIGINT ship.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:I knew the passenger amount. Still does Jack against a serious threat and due to lack of scouts and heavier vessels are mainly relegated to the function of protecting the Emperor/echoes.

Not once have I seen in an SM or CM ISIS use them in any other way. Because they are too valuable as escorts.
They work primarily as escorts because that's what they are. It's just that they can be repurposed on a fly to meet different demands that makes them an excellent choice for TFO.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Main thing like the new raider it was designed to go and follow where he old assassin corvette can't. Comics had it having larger mass and armor and shields to track things in that nebula IIRC.
I don't really see why you'd need more armour in a nebula. I'm missing something here. I'm just going to assume that you mean you wanted a larger and more capable scout ship, but we have those.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Actually you yourself supplied such a need for ISIS Reliance on subcaps like the IIXC before, specifically the major gap in overall fleet composition or lack there of for the poor ratio, of non cruiser capitals. Is. Frigates, corvettes etc.

I remember this point from you clearly.

Even with the fancy buoys and hyperspace monitoring stations and platforms, this was clearly conveyed.
And that's absolutely true. But that's for combat fleets, primarily. TFO isn't supposed to be one, and in any case, would be low on the priority list if we need to address a military imbalance.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:However, that limited resources things come into play.

To paraphrase:With resources strapped creation of more smaller units would not be feasible for some time.

Then someone pointed at the 2xC as a wonderful stopgap to be prepared for that time.

I remember others also alluded over time as NIF territory expands voluminously we would be rather going towards the better ratios, as ISIS had a lot of ground with 4th and 6th to cover on the defensive end when it came time for 1st 2nd, 3rd and 5th to move in on the NEw republic's third fleet and coruscant.

If you haven't guessed by now I'm no longer even arguing for my idea of a 3200 m ship here. Just for understanding isis, in my opinion, is far lesser then what it could be.

Starting with an hq or a lack there of, of any explanation besides "background handwavium of the setting" to justify why with constant expanding territory things with TFO, and ISIS, to me, just don't add up.
Ok. So the argument boils down to expanding TFO because of expanding territory. That's not a direct justification since TFO isn't patrolling anything other than intel hotbeds, but I grant you the legitimacy of the argument in principle.

The most obvious solution would be for TFO heads to make a request from the IRM, then. If there are no more pressing needs, ships can be built.

But TFO was never meant to be a combat fleet which seem to be what your grievance consist of at least partially. If it faces heavy opposition, something has gone very, very wrong and the best thing to do would be to pull out immediately.

I suppose that raises the question of whether TFO should be a combat fleet. I literally can't see any reason for that since we already have entire fleets for that purpose.

Let me say though, that I appreciate that you're looking at ways in which x, in this case TFO, could be more useable. It's just that, there are good reasons for why it's not an end-all be-all anymore than why AT-ATs don't have eight legs instead of four, or can fly and drop mines at the same time.
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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-29 09:16

Kane wrote: Yes, the database is slow to update since I do most of the work in it, and well, I can't be here and there at the same time. I'm not even going to excuse that, it's just an unfortunate reality. But you have external resources to draw upon as well, and have.
Yuku has many former players aboard, sadly nostalgia doesn't draw them back.
I think you need to talk to Crystala over Intel's organization, then, because that's not something I poke into more than I have to. I'd mostly chalk it up to too few players.
No comment for my blood pressures sake.
The II-xC, by the way, is entirely a SIGINT ship.
Not exactly but much is apocrqphal for its variants,
Relatively unknown, the Transmission Vessel / Maintenance II-xC is neither more nor less than ordinary unarmed communication shuttle and reconfigured. Produced by the company Merthyog Communications on the basis of a class Assault Shuttle Gamma, it largely repeats the lines of what remains one of the biggest hits of Telgorn Corporation. Perhaps there was a question of partnership or license buyback between the two industrial groups. With a length of 30 meters and a battery life equivalent to two weeks standards, the shuttle was slightly modified with the addition of a com antenna, placed on the nose of the aircraft and replacement of the hyperdrive by a Class 4, more modest. It has however very good sublight engines that offer it a top speed of 80 MGLT in space and 800 km / h in atmosphere. Bunker, meanwhile, can only accommodate 10 metric tons of cargo and spare parts. Designed and manufactured specifically for the account of the Galactic Empire, which, do not deny it, did not interest them for their modest price of 90,000 credits, these ships were deployed throughout the galaxy as Independent centers of communications, even if you do not know the exact number of units in service at the time of Palpatine. In any way contrary to offensive or logistical role that characterize some competing products, such as class shuttle Curich or Transport DX-9, the vessels Transmission / II-Xc Maintenance are used to retransmit subspace messages to space stations relay can optionally spy on enemy transmissions. Although slightly reinforced and provided with a deflector shield of low quality, the shuttle has been stripped of all defensive armament and therefore proves to be quite vulnerable. But this choice is voluntary since it allows to redirect a more useful energy to increase the power and scope of Transceivers vessel. Therefore the best protection lies in its speed and maneuverability, particularly in the ability of its drivers to get out of trouble. This shuttle also requires a full crew of 4 members and 10 technicians in normal times. However, it can be run by two people, one of the members involved while steering and the other playing the role of radio operator. In case of attack, the imperial protocol calls for the crew to escape and take refuge either from the fleet sector, or from the relay stations of defense systems to prevent the imperial frequencies are pirated and the command codes falling into the wrong hands.
Sources:

WEG - Classic Campaigns
WEG - The Abduction of Crying Dawn Singer

Later a modification of the class Assault Shuttle Gamma, was released in a circular but declared apocryphal as having been modified halfway from a IIxC to be in service by the Imperial Remnant and armed with a single laser to counter NRI Prowlere and Ferrets as it coordinated a squadron, acting in its roll as a Communications Ship

Technically the same ship but ruled later non Canon.

However, I certainly with the way back machine saw a few threads on things playing Stalk and kill with ferrets.

It's not completely out of concern a modified gamma or II xC could play the same role for ISI* , not as Sig Int per se, but as awacs in harm's way, or as a stalker of ferrets.]

I will agree: The II-xC, by the way, is entirely a SIGINT ship... Outside the gamma variant.

It's why IC I use the mods system when I play a character on one. It suffices.

This is a Google translation from... France? I think Or something btw for the bad grammar.

But:
"these ships were deployed throughout the galaxy as Independent centers of communications, even if you do not know the exact number of units in service at the time of Palpatine."

Means "a lot" hence why I exagerat e d and said we probably had "millions" around to deal with. At least more then we have fleet berths for.

Such has made me wonder: how many did the rebels capture or use from imp caches?

Good night, sleeping now.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Kane » 2015-12-29 10:07

Abraxes Rancor wrote:Yuku has many former players aboard, sadly nostalgia doesn't draw them back.
I'm not sure what your point is. We're not going back to Yuku; I've learned just how much they're good for.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:No comment for my blood pressures sake.
I take it there's been some disagreements. But without a dialogue, nothing will change.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Not exactly but much is apocrqphal for its variants,
Relatively unknown, the Transmission Vessel / Maintenance II-xC is neither more nor less than ordinary unarmed communication shuttle and reconfigured. Produced by the company Merthyog Communications on the basis of a class Assault Shuttle Gamma, it largely repeats the lines of what remains one of the biggest hits of Telgorn Corporation. Perhaps there was a question of partnership or license buyback between the two industrial groups. With a length of 30 meters and a battery life equivalent to two weeks standards, the shuttle was slightly modified with the addition of a com antenna, placed on the nose of the aircraft and replacement of the hyperdrive by a Class 4, more modest. It has however very good sublight engines that offer it a top speed of 80 MGLT in space and 800 km / h in atmosphere. Bunker, meanwhile, can only accommodate 10 metric tons of cargo and spare parts. Designed and manufactured specifically for the account of the Galactic Empire, which, do not deny it, did not interest them for their modest price of 90,000 credits, these ships were deployed throughout the galaxy as Independent centers of communications, even if you do not know the exact number of units in service at the time of Palpatine. In any way contrary to offensive or logistical role that characterize some competing products, such as class shuttle Curich or Transport DX-9, the vessels Transmission / II-Xc Maintenance are used to retransmit subspace messages to space stations relay can optionally spy on enemy transmissions. Although slightly reinforced and provided with a deflector shield of low quality, the shuttle has been stripped of all defensive armament and therefore proves to be quite vulnerable. But this choice is voluntary since it allows to redirect a more useful energy to increase the power and scope of Transceivers vessel. Therefore the best protection lies in its speed and maneuverability, particularly in the ability of its drivers to get out of trouble. This shuttle also requires a full crew of 4 members and 10 technicians in normal times. However, it can be run by two people, one of the members involved while steering and the other playing the role of radio operator. In case of attack, the imperial protocol calls for the crew to escape and take refuge either from the fleet sector, or from the relay stations of defense systems to prevent the imperial frequencies are pirated and the command codes falling into the wrong hands.
Sources:

WEG - Classic Campaigns
WEG - The Abduction of Crying Dawn Singer

Later a modification of the class Assault Shuttle Gamma, was released in a circular but declared apocryphal as having been modified halfway from a IIxC to be in service by the Imperial Remnant and armed with a single laser to counter NRI Prowlere and Ferrets as it coordinated a squadron, acting in its roll as a Communications Ship

Technically the same ship but ruled later non Canon.
The II-Xc is very much a SIGINT vessel in The Abduction of Crying Dawn Singer. It's called the Merthyog Communications' II-Xc Maintenance/Broadcast ship, and its entire purpose is to maintain and monitor subspace relay networks. I did the stats from the original source. That said, the deckplans show that the entire hull including engines, sensor dishes and armament of the Gamma-class assault shuttle is identical to the II-Xc. That's where the similarities end, however, as the II-Xc was specifically said to have no weapons even though they're clearly visible on the deckplan. It also has two tractor beams while the Gamma has one, the navigation system could store five jumps to the Gamma's three and so on.

It's actually nice that we can repurpose one of the most common shuttles to fit any need like that. It's a time honoured tradition, even.

In any case, the II-Xc remains a SIGINT ship. The Gamma-class assault shuttle remains an assault shuttle.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:However, I certainly with the way back machine saw a few threads on things playing Stalk and kill with ferrets.

It's not completely out of concern a modified gamma or II xC could play the same role for ISI* , not as Sig Int per se, but as awacs in harm's way, or as a stalker of ferrets.]

I will agree: The II-xC, by the way, is entirely a SIGINT ship... Outside the gamma variant.

It's why IC I use the mods system when I play a character on one. It suffices.

This is a Google translation from... France? I think Or something btw for the bad grammar.

But:
"these ships were deployed throughout the galaxy as Independent centers of communications, even if you do not know the exact number of units in service at the time of Palpatine."

Means "a lot" hence why I exagerat e d and said we probably had "millions" around to deal with. At least more then we have fleet berths for.

Such has made me wonder: how many did the rebels capture or use from imp caches?

Good night, sleeping now.
The vast majority of shuttles wouldn't be in a federal fleet, anyway. The II-Xc was a Rayter sector ship.

My, you've really been looking into the deep end of things, haven't you. I think I know which French magazine you've found, although the name escapes me at the moment. Edit: Casus Belli 99. It was semi-canon at the best of times - but they did make some observations like that, otherwise missed, and built their own canon on top of it. WP mentions that "It is unknown whether this article went through the Lucasfilm licensing process, and so its canonicity is uncertain. ", regarding one of those French articles. That matches what I remember, a licensing disagreement.
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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-29 21:32

Kane wrote:
Abraxes Rancor wrote:Yuku has many former players aboard, sadly nostalgia doesn't draw them back.
I'm not sure what your point is. We're not going back to Yuku; I've learned just how much they're good for.
*sings*
Huh, Yuku, what is it good for?
Absolutely Nothing. Huh.[/singing]

Never said to go back. It was a one off for regret of current status, and an indirect nod to your comment of lack of players. Most EZboard/yuku sites live off community convenience where one account may acces every type of board.

When the NIF moved it lost such networking.

In the end, it gave attrition that no amount of attention by a weary user base could fully defend against. Simply because of stagnation issues that develop when having a singular populace that rps with the same ppl for so long.

Sadly, I will note some of these effects or roadblocks to acquiring new members in such a means then ye olde EZboard has been an effect of *conscious* decision making and action When looked at historically in the sites development.

*shrugs* take such as you will.
Abraxes Rancor wrote:No comment for my blood pressures sake.
I take it there's been some disagreements. But without a dialogue, nothing will change.[/quote]
Most times such dialogue just opens up cans of worms. But true enough I suppose.
My, you've really been looking into the deep end of things, haven't you...
Come to the deep end, it is where the cool kids hang out. Plus we have those nifty drink flotation devices for The alcoholic beverages.
I think I know which French magazine you've found, although the name escapes me at the moment. Edit: Casus Belli 99. It was semi-canon at the best of times - but they did make some observations like that, otherwise missed, and built their own canon on top of it. WP mentions that "It is unknown whether this article went through the Lucasfilm licensing process, and so its canonicity is uncertain. ", regarding one of those French articles. That matches what I remember, a licensing disagreement.
Yeah, the details of the liscensing disagreement was stupid, based on a shared content allowance from WEG.

If there was anything I would ever go have an adventure in from their stuff in the NIF, I would suggest it be the:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gorgorror

Damn I always, did love that ships concept.

... Can I have it sometime? Maybe take the Emperor on a little exploration trip with a bunch of royal guard trainees or something? ... Please?

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Tavish McFini » 2015-12-29 22:30

This is probably one of those times where I should step in and actually uphold my station as a moderator of this particular subset of forum topics and ask that any future posts made only relate to the R&D of the vessel in question. Naturally, conversations around it's purpose and the question pertaining to whether or not we actually need this ship probably hold some merit but let's keep the discussions around other boards and other vessels to the proper places.

I think the big question revolves around the idea of whether or not a 3,200 meter long vessel is what the Intelligence branch, and possibly the entire navy, requires. There's arguments that can be made on both sides but, for the sake of trying to remain constructive, let's boil the discussion down to a singular question:

What would this ship, as presented, offer that, say, a Titan-class Star Destroyer, modified and retrofitted with the same level of intelligence equipment and possibly stripped down of some of its weaponry, couldn't achieve for maybe a somewhat reduced cost (the Titan is 100m shorter, and Kuat probably knows how to build them a lot more effectively and cheaply than a wholly new ship design)?

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-12-30 00:21

Tavish McFini wrote:This is probably one of those times where I should step in and actually uphold my station as a moderator of this particular subset of forum topics and ask that any future posts made only relate to the R&D of the vessel in question.
Kinda didn't bring up the gorgorror by chance... Been thinking a lot about special subsystems you can't get from a Vanilla template or a one off mod.

Edit 1: As for the gorgorror. Non Canon or not it was later cited as a bit of Force based technology as an inkling later for the creation of Ship. The sentient m/EU with vessel.

My mention of it in the concept is simple as it's one i liked in relation to a HQ.

ISI* has Inquisitors.
Some Inquisitors get trained in the force a bit.
Ergo , some idea of Force based tech can be implemented, and that whatever eventual version gets some interesting things.

Conceptually to me it's a matter of how to factor extra systems (force based systems being an option there) before I get back to reworking the base concept.

Should there be a:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cybernetic_chamber

For inquisitors, or crystala to link directly into the system of buoys or other stations we possess?

How far out should a description of the Helios AI be, should it be related to One, only. Or should such be increased to Three to handle the voluminous data.

Until I get a yes or a no to actually how far one can go with an HQ ship, I have nothing to write or change.
Naturally, conversations around it's purpose and the question pertaining to whether or not we actually need this ship probably hold some merit but let's keep the discussions around other boards and other vessels to the proper places.
No Scott, I was talking about this board and specific to ISIS iterations and role play mechanics across the history of *this* board. Which analysis of(though I will admit I went broader then maybe I should) is in case is VERY relevant to the dynamics of creating a vessel that would essentially be an ISI* flagship.

I will however keep a closer link to the subjects in question that would formulate the birth of such a vessel again.
I think the big question revolves around the idea of whether or not a 3,200 meter long vessel is what the Intelligence branch, and possibly the entire navy, requires. There's arguments that can be made on both sides but, for the sake of trying to remain constructive, let's boil the discussion down to a singular question:
I'll see that question boil then.
What would this ship, as presented, offer that, say, a Titan-class Star Destroyer, modified and retrofitted with the same level of intelligence equipment and possibly stripped down of some of its weaponry, couldn't achieve for maybe a somewhat reduced cost (the Titan is 100m shorter, and Kuat probably knows how to build them a lot more effectively and cheaply than a wholly new ship design)?
Well let's see here.let's address the source of the issue.

A. I would not in any way envision a vanilla Titan class star destroyer as the meand or method you would want in an ISIS flagship. On second thought. I do not believe it would powers the means to have the massive amount of computing power that would be required.

A Titan, would, or should be seriously massed up.

However, as the TItan has no volumetric rationale outside of fanon and sons of a galactic empire I don't quote have a source material that is consistent with it to do a pixel by pixel articulation.

If I went to a volumetric display of the original sized Devastator as a means of debating internal volume I could pull in WEG standards for the regular star destoyer and pixel comparisons of Star Wars Technical Commentaries.

Alas, due to the choice of a Titan I cant do much of that without debuting sins of a solar empire I. Hooking up the emulating software, and be careful in a new batch of screenshots for a size comparison to what they held as a rendition of a regular star destroyer to adjust the measurements from the old files..

Alas, I cannot.

Personally though, as the whole fanon of the TItan destroyer came from some comics that were then ruled either differentiated to the fact it was a sister design of your beloved Allegiance class, or similar in size to the old school measurement of a Devastator(similar in length to the old house of tagge battlecruisers); I'd prefer to phase out Titans and consider which ship is better.

The mark I eyeball I possess and the youtube can find of game footage of the warlords mod does suggest it still is the lesser vessel in total volume them something larger.

While I Can ultimately say it might be better to modify an existing ship... Far better then a new class creation, it might be best to look at a Battlecruiser or light Battlecruiser instead.

I will have to ponder such.

But in the meantime I can start posting a list for the goals and system of what such a flagship could possess by pushing the envelope on its systems.

1. Integration and AI support of the various Intelligence networks the organs of NIF's imperial intelligence facets have.

- no handwavium here.

2.stealth functions to keep it in line with the rest of TFO.

3. Speed that if it's discovered can get it away, and let's be clear on to purposes: any flag of IsI* will eventually have a scenario of its discovery by opposition in a CM whether it be miracle bouncing both ans or not.

This fixation on a Titan as comparison to something else is ridiculous unless you can make said titan more speedy.

The only means of having a Titan to the greater speed such would need in said ISIS flagship is if IC Crystals endeavored to have the next prototype of the lucky chocolate installed on the vessel as a testbed for the one that would eventually to on Nemesis to make it speedier.

But that would require, you Fini, and you Ace to actually put your heads together and make a decision once and for all of what you would want to see in an TFO flagship.

Or whether it would be built at all.

Consider me stepping aside for a bit and scrapping this idea and definitely shouting "No" to the rafters of TFO using a Titan as it's base HQ. There's wayyyy to little data to start talking volumetric with that thing.

I have no alternative to anything else to offer though as a better modifiable class.

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Re: Observer Mk II

Post by Tavish McFini » 2015-12-30 03:26

Well, I was merely suggesting a Titan because it was the closest in length to the ship being proposed. An ASD is a good kilometer shy and I didn't want to overdo it with an ESD which, to me, felt like comparing apples to oranges in that regard.
Abraxes wrote:A. I would not in any way envision a vanilla Titan class star destroyer as the meand or method you would want in an ISIS flagship. On second thought. I do not believe it would powers the means to have the massive amount of computing power that would be required.
A vanilla Titan wouldn't have many desirable qualities, but I never excluded the idea that it could be modified to some degree. For instance, it doesn't need quite as many weapons as it has, not to mention it doesn't need a whole planetary invasion force so that space could be reallocated to storing the necessary hardware to handle the computing power needed. After all, if the present Echo-class ships, at under 1Km can house the necessary hardware, upping the volume several times should more than be capable of handling it in my mind.

Honestly, I don't think the debate here should be "is a Titan big enough"...
Abraxes wrote:But in the meantime I can start posting a list for the goals and system of what such a flagship could possess by pushing the envelope on its systems.

1. Integration and AI support of the various Intelligence networks the organs of NIF's imperial intelligence facets have.
The Echo-class ships don't seem to be having this problem though is it a byproduct of lack of trying to be as realistic as possible or do we genuinely have enough computing power necessary stored in such a small volume?
Abraxes wrote:2.stealth functions to keep it in line with the rest of TFO.
I feel as though stealth is something that is either easily applied to most vessels regardless of class and size or could be nigh pointless on larger vessels but useful on smaller ones. After all, a smaller ship will genuinely be stealthier, and harder to hit. Plus, it will be easier (cheaper) to cloak.
Abraxes wrote:3. Speed that if it's discovered can get it away, and let's be clear on to purposes: any flag of IsI* will eventually have a scenario of its discovery by opposition in a CM whether it be miracle bouncing both ans or not.
Discovery will happen, yes. But another thing to remember is that, the difficulty of the situation is going to scale with the power and size of the ship. If the enemy knows the ISIS flagship is a 3.2km long vessel, they're going to probably send a much larger force than they would against a 900+ meter long one. Maybe that's being too meta of me, but that'd be the reality of the situation regardless.
Abraxes wrote:This fixation on a Titan as comparison to something else is ridiculous unless you can make said titan more speedy.
You call it ridiculous, I call it the closest proxy that, to me, sounded like a reasonable comparison point. What would you suggest I use as a comparison then if the Titan is so ridiculous?
Abraxes wrote:But that would require, you Fini, and you Ace to actually put your heads together and make a decision once and for all of what you would want to see in an TFO flagship.

Or whether it would be built at all.

Consider me stepping aside for a bit and scrapping this idea and definitely shouting "No" to the rafters of TFO using a Titan as it's base HQ. There's wayyyy to little data to start talking volumetric with that thing.

I have no alternative to anything else to offer though as a better modifiable class.
I've already said this before and I'll say it again: I'm not saying to use a Titan but it seems we cannot get past that point for some reason. As for what a TFO flagship should look like, I would prefer to leave it to other people to come up with ideas and, through constructive discussion, refine it into a vessel we can all be proud of. You seem to have a pretty firm idea of what sort of volume requirements are needed for this ship which is pretty impressive, and specific which is probably why I'm having difficulties understanding why it needs to be the size proposed.

At any rate, I'll lock the topic for the time being and when you're ready to come back to it, notify me via PM and I'll have it reopened.
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