What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

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Abraxes Rancor
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What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2014-12-21 02:51

I know the NIF retook the Intimidator, but is the Yevethan world of N'Zoth under our control?
(I know K-10 square is green, but I'm just asking here for clarification, not all NR holdouts are in red )

(If so/ if not ) is the Aramadia still a museum ?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aramadia ... stroyer%29

I have an interesting idea for a future thread that I wouldn't mind others joining in with if it is, but the particulars might be different if it's still in NR controlled space or not. The eye of deth looks particularly interesting, aside from the ship itself... if it was in NIF hands, why wouldn't we get the ship out of mothballs?

Though I'd personally like an ISIS/freelancer initiative to steal it if it's in the NR. Could be something in the Museaum would have old data that leads to something greater. >.>.

So, basically, what's the status of the Yevetha now?

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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by jacenwesiri » 2014-12-24 15:07

We had a campaign series which ended up with us more or less neutron bombing every Yevethan world. I would suggest that the Yevetha are borderline functionally extinct at this point, with more than 99% of them exterminated. Of the worlds, their ecosystems would be expected to be wrecked as a side effect of the neutron bombing.

Anyways, Devan and I had a thread going about trying to restore N'Zoth, but that ended when certain things happened on the board.

As far as the Aramadia goes, it was probably captured, but it might have been destroyed by TH. Superlasers do that, and TH was rather sensible in the context that he was fine blowing things up that would present an obstacle. Not like some of us who were more interested in capturing more ships for their fleets. :)
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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2014-12-24 18:53

I'd be game for doing a reiteration of that n'zoth rebuilding thread, and maybe its other world's if you want to pick the idea up again. Just post a starter and I would jump in.

The cluster n zoth and the other world's now bombed would be good for a few fortress world's. And an interesting backdrop of a setting.

Heck I'd even ask you or ace for a world devastator or two to have abraxes oversee a black code level operation there. Those things can eat radioactive material and spit it out clean. A series of dead 8world's and metalhulks of slcities would be an interesting setting to play out.

Either way the premise is interesting enough 4 a thread if your still interested jacen. I would still need definite clarification on the aramadia and that jewel.l though if I wanted to work in an idea I originally had.

I'm game if you are jacen.

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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by John Lauri » 2015-01-07 23:58

That was 10 years ago.

I'd think the ecosystems of the planets would be restored to normal by now, since we have the technology to slap together planets from scratch in a few years, such as Byss.

The Yevethans themselves would be few and far between. I'd imagine they'd live in Enclaves or on Reservations.

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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-01-08 00:27

Arkan wrote:That was 10 years ago.
2 years by the timeline the yevthan purge was part of the black fleet crisis which ended in 17 aby, we're still in 19 aby now. The question here is how long politics and confrontations between the nr and the nif have continued have affected or set such things back- good idea for a Senate vote too.
arkan wrote:I'd think the ecosystems of the planets would be restored to normal by now, since we have the technology to slap together planets from scratch in a few years, such as Byss.
I agree, probably fall into an odd jobs category that fourth is known for helping out with.
arkan wrote: The Yevethans themselves would be few and far between. I'd imagine they'd live in Enclaves or on Reservations.
Yeah I could see that, could be an interesting take for a detcon trooper to be sent to such camps on rotation, or Isis even years down the line.

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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by jacenwesiri » 2015-01-08 01:42

Abraxes Rancor wrote:
arkan wrote:I'd think the ecosystems of the planets would be restored to normal by now, since we have the technology to slap together planets from scratch in a few years, such as Byss.
I agree, probably fall into an odd jobs category that fourth is known for helping out with.
arkan wrote: The Yevethans themselves would be few and far between. I'd imagine they'd live in Enclaves or on Reservations.
Yeah I could see that, could be an interesting take for a detcon trooper to be sent to such camps on rotation, or Isis even years down the line.
I would find it doubtful that you could resurrect an ecosystem in just a few years. Centuries maybe, but probably not a few years. Anyways, for convenience sake, lets discuss what actually happened. We did a high grade neutron bombing of the planet. this would have effectively destroyed all life on the planet. The effects of the bombing and other parts of the fighting would have left a significant amount of gases from various sources of combustion and whatnot, which would have left a rather caustic atmosphere. There probably would not so much acid rain on N'Zoth because it was a desert, but it would be expected that most of the water on N'Zoth and the other worlds where we did this would be rather caustic. Beyond that, there would be expected radioactive fallout associated with the neutron bombing. Since it was neutron bombing, the fallout would not be enough to kill off people for short exposure, but long term it would cause problems.

You might be able to get certain bacteria to live, and perhaps a few small enclaves of other types of plants or rats in settlements and whatnot, but realistically, you would have to clean up a lot of that damage up in order to get it setup so that an end state would be useful. This would not be cheap to do if you would want it in any short time frame, with short being making it useful within a generation. Alternatively, we could seed the planet with various types of bacteria which would handle a lot of the issues over time, but in a best case scenario, that would take years, more pessimistic scenarios could take centuries. But there is one very important caveat, that would be for each step, and there would be multiple steps that would need to be done before we could get there in the end. Once the planet is 'ready' for life, then we would probably want to handle things in stages. Trees take years to grow. Grass can grow in weeks. Realistically, it would take extra time for them to establish themselves. It would be similar with animal species. Realistically, you probably wouldn't want to try introducing predator species until the prey species is established.

Until you get a good part of that established, settlement would be expensive, and at stages, prohibitively so. I view many of those planets like N'Zoth as being similar to prime real estate that's been destroyed, perhaps bombed out or hit by a natural disaster. For that comparison, a more concrete example might be in order. After the World Trade Center towers went down, it took about 9 months to clear the rubble, then years to handle surveying and similar preparatory work, and then years on top of that to handle reconstruction. Altogether, it took about 13 years to get the site working again. That said, there were many billions dumped into it, many of which was probably wasted. There was probably quite a bit of waste, corruption, delays and whatnot, but perhaps if they had really wanted it up quickly, they could have done it in maybe half that amount of time. That's for something where most of the infrastructure to build it was already in place. For N'Zoth (and others like it), much of that infrastructure would be destroyed or irradiated, and probably would not be built to our specifications. Replacing or otherwise making the infrastructure usable would be expensive.

Of course, perhaps all of that is getting into something else. Wars are expensive and destructive. Normally, it's not the military that rebuilds, though that can happen. Viewing how to move forward from that war is further complicated by other things. First, it takes a lot of money, money that would probably be scarce right now given the war with the NR. Second, we would need a lot of workers, workers who otherwise could be working on the war effort or making sure that the folks back home aren't starving and have what they need. Third, once we'd get it habitable and start setting up cities and whatnot, we would need people to settle there, people who would be engaged on other things, and probably next to impossible to do without disturbing the war effort. Oh yeah, and one more consideration. If we rebuild the worlds, and then decide to cut funds elsewhere, we could very easily waste all of our efforts, which among other things makes the project fairly risky. Again, why would we be undertaking a high risk project like that during wartime?

As for the Yevetha, my guess is that they've been rounded up and are being used for slave labor about now.
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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by Abraxes Rancor » 2015-01-08 11:42

jacenwesiri wrote: I would find it doubtful that you could resurrect an ecosystem in just a few years.


Depends on the era, and if we had any inroads to the Vongforming tech, and vongshaping tech we captured in that one SM. In legacy time- sure, could do it in ten years. For now in this era: I think you could barely get out of Phase Zero in about a year, or six months dependant upon how many resources or types you devote to such a project. I'll go into detail of what I mean by phases later on.
jacenwesiri wrote:Centuries maybe, but probably not a few years.
Current analogies in the Star wars setting would be the ecological drift of Yavin four from the lost city of the jedi, but I understand where you're going with this. But the impetus is where I'll be going into later.
Jacenwesiri wrote:Anyways, for convenience sake, lets discuss what actually happened. We did a high grade neutron bombing of the planet. this would have effectively destroyed all life on the planet. The effects of the bombing and other parts of the fighting would have left a significant amount of gases from various sources of combustion and whatnot, which would have left a rather caustic atmosphere.
I understand, caustic gases, atmosphere and water reclamation will be discussed under phase zero later. As for the gases, I direct you specifically to the workhorse of colonization efforts in bad atmospheres the :
Elysium Model 2 Atmospheric generator
Wookiee wrote: Costing 4,500,000, credits the model was the smallest terraforming device the company sold and was roughly equal in size to a Star Cruiser. The device's layout was similar to a large ziggurat, with stepped sides and a flat top concealing the many internal systems which the machine needed to produce a breathable atmosphere, clean water, and weather patterns. The systems were powered by the subsurface heat and energy of a planet, and used the raw materials available to manipulate the environment around them. Elysiums needed a crew of at least one hundred technicians and engineers as well as droids to work areas of the processor unsuitable for organics. During the colonisation of a world, a Model 2 was often the first thing deployed, with the colony built around the machine. As such, many cities in the Outer Rim Territories included a repurposed or decommissioned Elysium somewhere within their borders.[1]
The caustic natures of the atmosphere are really not that much of a problem.
jacenwesiri wrote:There probably would not so much acid rain on N'Zoth because it was a desert, but it would be expected that most of the water on N'Zoth and the other worlds where we did this would be rather caustic.


On other worlds the acid rain would not be as bad after a few months of constantly processing/cleaning/diluting seas with a higher grade of processing plant then would be found in the Elysium's. Or just build more Elysium's.
jacen wesiri wrote:Beyond that, there would be expected radioactive fallout associated with the neutron bombing. Since it was neutron bombing, the fallout would not be enough to kill off people for short exposure, but long term it would cause problems."
Of course, however Star wars has already ray shields to block radiation.

Also, workers/ first wave colonists after phase 0 could be protected by ray shielded Habitation Domes. Those habitation domes, under droid control can begin growing/overseeing the one time purchase price of plants/etc. Furthermore, interconnected domes can form various structures, and eventually cities by themselves protected by the radiation. A similar setup can be found already on the world of Nox http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nox
I also forget which radioactive world had a similar setup, but I know similar things are out there. A viable community could be established relatively cheaply over time, using prefabricated modules and city scopes used in mining colonies out in asteroids with similar setups to stellar radiation.

In fact, this is how the empire got it's own ideas to make/ship/ setup prefabricated bases.

You touched on the plant idea here:
jacenwesiri wrote:You might be able to get certain bacteria to live, and perhaps a few small enclaves of other types of plants or rats in settlements and whatnot, but realistically, you would have to clean up a lot of that damage up in order to get it setup so that an end state would be useful. This would not be cheap to do if you would want it in any short time frame, with short being making it useful within a generation.
I'd have to stop you here, relatively cheap due to the exorbitant amount of colonization resources. We already discussed via pm several bacteria types that could be modified to assist in the process, but let's talk about how *fast* it really is capable in a star wars setting to not get an 'end state' but a 'clean slate.'

To get a clean slate- we'd have to literally remove all the city wreckage on N'zoth. Repurposing it for our use. It's still made of metals, and alloys under the imperial occupation, and almost all of it can be refined in molecular recycling plants to remove the major concentrated source of radiation, on a previously technological filled world;

It's remaining metals and structures that would be essential. Everything not essential is fuel for the NIF's war machine.

Why? N'Zoth is the Black Sword Command's back yard. The command itself is literally on it's moon, and right now N'zoth is a closed system. The military has full rights until the planets are opened for colonization to use any materials there for reprocessing as spoils of war, and occupation.

Also: Star wars has exceedingly good ways of removing radiation from metals, and ships. Take a look at the Decon III droid.
A variant of the Decon III was stored aboard most long-range starships in case the entire vessel was flooded with radiation. If that happened, these units would deploy chemical spray hoses and fill the cabins, decks and bulkheads with a rad-absorbing foam. The poisonous froth would then be scooped up by the droids and subjected to the same treatment as contaminated soil.
Please be aware, the radioactive absorbing chemicals produced can be done on site by a factory system hooked up to a Mass Recycling plant. In short, though at cost, it would be possible to generate these on N'Zoth itself. Also- we can't confuse the radiation absorbing chemicals with with Radiation Dampening Foam.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Radiation_dampening_foam

The Decon III droid would be the workhorse for any soil reclamation in any habitation domes/zones to clean up radiation in what I call Phase Zero later on.

As for price- it's relatively cheaper then building one magnate.
1600CP^3= 4,096,000,000 credits per ship. (taken from the IRM)

For the first habitation zones and setup of machinery such as the elysiums when you put it all together is about ten percent of that cost:
450,000,000. All things considered, the reclamation of the world's bonus, with heavy droid labor and the institution of control by a HELIOS to limit the danger to organics would be rather... well, hard not to justify. AT least for N'zoth as the test bed as it's the BSC's backyard, though be aware the other systems in the koornatch where black 8, and Black 9 do not appear to have had their yards salvaged. Any step of taking this idea to the cluster as a whole would probably help reclaim them.

For just N'zoth though: it's at least on the equipment side already available and we have plans for manufacture under lisence.

For other worlds in the cluster- it would relate to how much resources are left, some of those vast factory farm planets would not be profitable.
jacenwesiri wrote: Alternatively, we could seed the planet with various types of bacteria which would handle a lot of the issues over time, but in a best case scenario, that would take years, more pessimistic scenarios could take centuries. But there is one very important caveat, that would be for each step, and there would be multiple steps that would need to be done before we could get there in the end."
Of course, I discussed with you via pm, one such bacteria type, I however did not expound on various distribution methods already in star wars.

Read the Coruscant Atmospheric Reclamation process where it discusses stations that distributed genetically engineered organisms that consumed various gases and chemicals.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Coruscan ... on_Project

It dovetails into the technology to employ violent sweeper storms to help clean the atmosphere of radiation once you create enough free standing water that's constantly cleaned and shipped out to dilute the planet's crippled biosphere.

Also, there were satellite types to release bacteria and other agents into an atmosphere under the weather control systems in the star wars universe, I forget one gas giant that had such dispersal systems, it's lost in the inet.

That's all basically phase Zero, I guess I don't have to explain much of it >.>. Anyway then it goes to what you said.
jacenwesiri wrote:Once the planet is 'ready' for life, then we would probably want to handle things in stages. Trees take years to grow. Grass can grow in weeks. Realistically, it would take extra time for them to establish themselves. It would be similar with animal species. Realistically, you probably wouldn't want to try introducing predator species until the prey species is established.
I agree here, I think I sort of expounded on this a little when I discussed habitation zones.
jacenwesiri wrote:Until you get a good part of that established, settlement would be expensive, and at stages, prohibitively so.
I view many of those planets like N'Zoth as being similar to prime real estate that's been destroyed, perhaps bombed out or hit by a natural disaster. <edited out> For N'Zoth (and others like it), much of that infrastructure would be destroyed or irradiated, and probably would not be built to our specifications. Replacing or otherwise making the infrastructure usable would be expensive.
Ah, but in star wars it's a little different, the fleets aim, and the NIF military's aim would not to make the actual infrastructure reusable, save in the rarest of occasions:

A factory on the world.
An atmospheric Generator,
A reclamation vat system,
Any available power plants with core taps.
<very few other exceptions>

Also, I briefly went into the costs present and cuts that can be utilized by using colonization technology and droid technology. Once you have the Habitation Domes setup, you basically have a self revolving system in place to continue the process, regardless of future budget cuts. Also- for relatively less then one thinks. Are we on the same page here?
jacenwesiri wrote:Of course, perhaps all of that is getting into something else. Wars are expensive and destructive. Normally, it's not the military that rebuilds, though that can happen. Viewing how to move forward from that war is further complicated by other things.
Of course, war material is also expensive, I doubt black sword command wouldn't at least consider raiding the irradiated resources with droid technology for the NIF's military usage. Whatever scraps are left from the recycling process , would either be directed to the planet's recovery as a secondary measure.

jacenwesiri wrote:First, it takes a lot of money, money that would probably be scarce right now given the war with the NR."


Less then one would think with the droid elements, as well as the reclamation of materials for various elements of the NIF war machine. Money well spent in most regards.
jacenwesiri wrote:Second, we would need a lot of workers, workers who otherwise could be working on the war effort or making sure that the folks back home aren't starving and have what they need.
In this instance, under proper control of a BRT Supercomputer a lot of manpower would be reduced, along with droid control.
I remember Ace saying once, that the OSIRIS, and the HELIOS model after were more specialized models of a BRT supercomputer, or perhaps the next generation of one. :)
jacenwesiri wrote:Third, once we'd get it habitable and start setting up cities and whatnot, we would need people to settle there, people who would be engaged on other things, and probably next to impossible to do without disturbing the war effort."
Well, phase zero would be building the habitation domes for all the droid factories/workers etc, you'd actually have them built rather easily with recycled materials on the planet of N'zoth. It's pretty much what construction droids are made for, due to well, all the caustic atmospheres you find colonies in in star wars.
jacenwesiri wrote:Oh yeah, and one more consideration. If we rebuild the worlds, and then decide to cut funds elsewhere, we could very easily waste all of our efforts, which among other things makes the project fairly risky. Again, why would we be undertaking a high risk project like that during wartime?
I touched on this being in black sword command's back yard. It would definitely have the resources of dead worlds going to the fortification of that part of the NIF's defenses, heck, if you combined all the dead cities materials, you might get enough to build a ring world above N'zoth- in addition to the massive defensive and production boost that would bring. ;)
jacenwesiri wrote:As for the Yevetha, my guess is that they've been rounded up and are being used for slave labor about now.
Slave labor, in concentration camps... on radioactive worlds they have to rebuild? :) an excellent way to punish them... very old empire like >.>.

To recap, if this is tl/dr.

Phase Zero- get up to the ability to use droids to reprocess the vast amounts of irradiated material while building necessary radiation scrubbers/ atmospheric generators/cleaners/ etc

Pretty much strip mine the irradiated ores of hte cities and use the materials to build stuff for the NIF war effort.

Utilize the planet as a potential rad trooper training site by deploying a harsh environment pre-fabricated base complex, to also house the helios that would be necessary to run everything with droid focused thinking.

Build/move a droid factory too.

Phase One- Dome cities for various military uses/machinery/agricultural needs of the system for the BSC and it's workers.

Phase II... NIF's war machine's profit.

Phase III , Convert or build more domes later when things are cleared for civilian settlement; then worry about all the namby pamby environmental stuff like insects and animals that can't be done with agricultural droids.

Alright, I think that's where I stand in things. So if you read all of that , Thank you.

I think this would be an interesting project to play out. Especially the military driven aspects of it. Especially since fourth fleet's odd jobs include assisting making fortress worlds in systems :D.

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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by Tavish McFini » 2015-08-03 04:36

jacenwesiri wrote:We had a campaign series which ended up with us more or less neutron bombing every Yevethan world. I would suggest that the Yevetha are borderline functionally extinct at this point, with more than 99% of them exterminated. Of the worlds, their ecosystems would be expected to be wrecked as a side effect of the neutron bombing.
... Wow... That brings back memories! Who'd thunk I'd end up with their ship, the Executor-class formally known as the Pride of Yevetha formally known as the Intimidator?

But yeah, I distinctly recall us devastating the crap out of the place... Had I known then what I know now, or realized the enormity of the situation (I blame my youthful ignorance), things might be a tad different now... I'd probably be shot. :P
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Re: What is with the Yevetha now in NIF history?(Kane/fini)

Post by jacenwesiri » 2015-08-04 03:16

It's funny. I don't think any of us really understood the gravity of what was going on there. I blame youthful ignorance on my part. I guess it's funny how being seventeen might not allow for the best of understanding of such things.

It's kinda odd thinking through just what was done there. It's funny, because the first word that comes to my mind about what was done there would be holocaust, however, it's also interesting thinking it through in terms of the Yevetha, as they'd probably have done the same to us given the chance. That said, from what I recall about Jacen at the time, I don't know if I'd have had him oppose it or not. I suspect that Jacen might well have given the order if Ace hadn't. No, I'm fairly certain Jacen wouldn't have given that specific order, but I think he would have given an equivalent one. I'm picturing asteroids being involved, enough perhaps to make what happened to the dinosaurs seem like a picnic.

I can see a scene in my mind. Imagine the music from Return of the King from where there's the break in the battle for Minas Tirith. Jacen watching from a safe distance away as asteroid after asteroid hits the planet, with the shockwaves being visible from high orbit. It'd seem so serene, so peaceful. But deep down, you know that each shockwave is probably killing off millions of yevetha. I think i'd end it like that, just letting that poignant image soak in.
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